August 2014 - Page 3 of 8 - Tales of the Aggronaut

Fears Verified

August 23, 2014 by Belghast

Death Visits

It is shaping up to be a bad week. I realize at this point it is Saturday and the week is technically over, but bear with me. Thursday I got a text from my father telling me that my Aunt Inez had passed away. Technically she is a Great Aunt and the sister of my Grandmother that passed away close to a decade ago now. So given her age it is not terribly shocking news, but I feel horrible that she lived roughly two hours away… and I have not seen her since my Grandmothers funeral. At the least I think she attended the funeral, but that day was such a blur that I can’t really be certain. I know she was not at my Grandfathers funeral a few years ago, because she wasn’t well enough to travel. I don’t know the details of when the service will be, but I was figuring I likely should make the trip.

That was at least until last night I got a call from my mother. Another Aunt has been in and out of the hospital more times than I can count over the last few years. I say Aunt but again that is a bit of a misnomer since she is technically my second cousin… but she treated me like a nephew pretty much all of my life and I was too young to realize that my cousins and I did not have the same relationship to her. She has been in final stage renal failure for quite some time and having to take eight hour dialysis pretty much every other day. In fact when my Grandmother on my moms side passed away earlier this year, I had thought my Aunt would go before her. Last night on the phone my mother said that she had been given a terminal diagnosis and was being transferred to hospice. Yesterday they stopped dialysis which gives her a prognosis of two to four days at the most.

As at peace as I thought I would be with this… it turns out I really am not. In fact my mother called my cell phone at 7 am this morning…. and I am scared to death to return it. My wife and I had planned to come visit her today, since we couldn’t go together last night. My fear is that I am going to pick up the phone and call my mother back and find out that she passed in the night. I have a complex mix of feelings about how exactly I am with this possible event. So long as I don’t call her back, it is like it hasn’t happened yet… and for all I know it might not have. There is part of me that thinks it is a blessing, because she has not had any semblance of a qualitative life in the last six years or so. The single solitary joy she had was mealtime, and if that is the happiest you are all day long… then it tells me life is pretty horrible. Another part of me deeply mourns the fun and interesting aunt that she was for most of my life, and that she hasn’t been able to be for the last decade. I know that once I finish my blog post, I will call my mother back and whatever it is that has happened will not longer be sitting out in a buffer somewhere… but will be very real. This mornings post I guess is a way of psyching myself up to receive the news.

Fears Verified

I did not actually make it through my post this morning before receiving another call from my mother. It was in fact what I had feared, that my aunt passed away over night. She drifted off to sleep and never woke up and passed early this morning around 2 am. I guess they had known about this for longer than they had told me. She found out sometime on Wednesday, and at that point her and my mother went into planning mode, planning all of the elements of her funeral. Apparently she also threw all of her renal diet measures out the window and ate the things she had been craving. The one that I found the oddest was the fact that apparently she had been craving a snickers bar. So much so that she asked my mother to go out and get her one right then. By some quirk of fate my mother had purchased a snickers bar that morning and it was sitting there in her purse just waiting for the request.

My aunt was one of people that when she made up her mind she did it whatever it was. If she decided she wanted to go to a craft show, she would show up at the house early that morning and say “get in the car, we are going to a craft show”. More often than not my mother would tag along for whatever adventure it was that they were off to, be it going to a movie or going on a road trip. When I was younger there were many weekends she would decide that we were going off together to visit my cousins, and me and my Aunt would go off on an adventure where I am sure I would talk her ear off about whatever thing I happened to be into at the time. It turns out that when she realized there was no getting better, she set her mind to planning on her passing. It sounded like during the day yesterday she had set all of her affairs in order, making sure my mother had transferred enough to her own account to pay for the funeral. After that it seems like she decided she was done with everything that needed to be done and simply drifted off peacefully.

Just Dance

As not to end this mornings post on a somber note, I thought I would mention something that warms my heart. Final Fantasy XIV is a very charming game, and as such it seems to attract a certain type of gamer that is more than willing to stop and smell the roses. When I go idle I am notorious for starting up one of the many dances that I have been collecting in game. Often times when I return to the keyboard I will be joined by one or more people who have decided to take up dancing beside me. This happens as an almost nightly ritual in the housing ward our guild has a plot in. I will go down to the market board, and while checking out what has been posted I will start up a dance. Before I know it Naine one of the neighbors will have joined me, and on occasion others will as well. The community is weird like that, and I am growing to love it.

The above screenshot is of me and a new friend going through our little dance ritual while waiting on something to spawn. I feel like if you stop to dance with a Lalafell, you are destined to become instant friends. So the next time you happen upon someone dancing in whatever game you happen to be playing… take a moment to join in. It is moments like this that make the virtual world seem so much closer than just an assemblage of pixels. On a side note I am extremely happy to see so many friends either renewing their accounts or starting new ones to come hang out on Cactuar with us all. I am really hoping this will be a game I set down roots in for a long while. We are already involved in a bunch of different active link shells and it feels like we have connections far deeper than just our immediate circle of friends. I have not felt that way in any game since the early days of Warcraft, and I have to say it feels really awesome.

Cannot be Tamed Questionnaire: Part Three

August 22, 2014 by Belghast

Wrapping it Up

Over the last few days I have been answering a Gaming Questionnaire, and with a little luck this morning I should be wrapping that up. You can check out part one and two and see what the earlier answers were, or you can check out the original survey here. Without further stalling… here goes the answering of the final leg of this survey. Be Warned… this leg of the journey is going to include several spoilers… so

SPOILER WARNING!

14. Most memorable moment in a game:

I alluded to this in one of my answers yesterday, but the most memorable moment for me while playing a game was in a Link to the Past. I can’t explain this fully without spoilers, so if you have not played The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past I highly suggest you do that and maybe skip this answer for the time being. In the game you spend a lot of time running around collecting all of the objects you are used to from a Zelda game all in the attempt of rescuing Zelda from the dark wizard Aghanim. After collecting the Master Sword, the pinnacle of the original game you journey to the tower in Hyrule Castle where the Dark Wizard resides and do battle with him. Up until this point I totally thought I was moments away from beating the game, and a little disappointed at just how short the experience was.

When the finally defeat the wizard, and I remember the battle being rather challenging at the time, you expect to collect your rewards and move on after beating the game. Nope! You are warped into the Dark World and you set upon a different quest. I remember my jaw almost hitting the floor as I realized “there is a whole other world!” This was the very first time I game had done this to me, set up the starter world / real world bait and switch so successfully. In those moments this one game forever changed the way I looked at game in general. So when I played Rage for example… I was totally expecting a bait and switch that unlocked the real game, but alas it was just a really short storyline.

15. Scariest moment in a game:

Crossing Kithicor at night will I think forever be the scariest thing I can think of in any game. For those who are not familiar with it, in the original Everquest there was a zone that sat between the West Commonlands and Rivervale called Kithicor Forest. Both Rivervale and the Commonlands were starter zones and during the day Kithicor was a nice level 15 hunting zone. However at night it changed completely and was filled with tons of level 50 undead creatures that spawned moments after dark and stayed up until the daylight hours. Everquest was an old school game and the only way to move around was to do so by foot. There were a number of druid and wizard ports but those required finding a person of that class, and more often than not it was more trouble than actually running there would have been.

In Everquest there was a concept called “running the zone line”. Since this was an early game a lot of the zones were big squares, and by quirk of the spawning and pathing code the zonelines were generally relatively safe places, though later on they purposefully made some of them dangerous. There were many a time that I would zone into Kithicor just as it was getting dark and praying I could make it across the zone before attracting unwanted attention. In all the times I ran Kithicor, I never actually aggro’d any of the high level undead, but this did not stop me from living in fear of them. It felt like I was constantly moments away from a horrible and grizzly death.

16. Most heart-wrenching moment in a game:

This one took me a little bit to think about it, but the more that I did the more I was certain there was one exact moment that I had to talk about. Well written stories have a way of taking a character that you start out disliking and maybe even hating a little bit… and turning them into something you have come to love. Mass Effect 2 was my first foray into that game series and as such I have a deep love for many of the characters that were introduced in that game. One of them that turned from someone I disliked to someone I came to adore was Mordin Solus. I went ahead and linked the moment for those who have not played the series or plan on playing the series. Essentially through the story line you find out that he was responsible for the genetic disease that caused the Krogan to become sterile.

In Mass Effect 3 he sets out to undo what he had done and is sabotaged by his people and namely the STG the secret group that he was originally a part of. I replayed this section of the game over and over to see if there was a way I could stop this from happening, but as far as I know there simply isn’t. In order to distribute the cure to the Krogan, Mordin realizes he has to die. “Someone else might have gotten it wrong” is his only explanation. I just finished watching the video I am embedding, and man… I still get choked up watching him sacrificing himself in his usual logical manner. It is an absolute sucker punch directly to the feels. Thank you Mass Effect for being able to do this several times during the course of the game. I still think if you turned Mass Effect into a television series, it would be amazing.

17. What are your favorite websites/blogs about games?

This one thankfully is a rather short answer. If it is in my blogroll I read it regularly, and suggest you also read it. My blogroll has gotten so large that I had to implement a database driven system that shows like 20 random blogs at a time, especially since I have a habit of showcasing specific groups of blogs like the Newbie Blogger initiative classes or Blaugust.

18. What’s the last game you finished?

The last game I finished was Divinity: Dragon Commander and you can check out my Steampowered Sunday feature on it here. I had previously beaten Divinity II and loved every moment of it, so in preparation for the release of Divinity: Original Sin I started playing a ton of games by Larian Studios. If you have not played any of their games I highly suggest you check them out. Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity are the only two I have not played yet, but I hear they are both excellent Diablo style games in spite of the fact that they have horrible names. They have this odd habit of not making games in the same genre twice. Dragon Commander for example is this strange Civilization/RTS hybrid, Divinity II is a Skyrim-esc game, Divine/Beyond are Diablo style games and Original Sin is a hard core PC RPG in the style of Baldur’s Gate. It is a really interesting company, and they make some awesome games.

19. What future releases are you most excited about?

The only game on the horizon that I am really excited for is Destiny. The reason why I got a Playstation 4 was in huge part because of this game. We had a ton of fun playing it as a group in beta, and I look forward to doing so again when it releases in September. Really interesting FPS with role-playing game elements and at the same time built around a really good shooter engine. The game was gorgeous and the game play extremely enjoyable. You can check out my some of my initial thoughts here. My only frustration is that those playing on Microsoft consoles and those playing on Sony consoles will be on separate servers. We have Microsoft to blame for this one, because they place some odd restrictions on the manufacturers. With FFXIV for example it is on PC and Sony consoles… and all of the players play on the same server.

20. Do you identify as a gamer?

In spite of all of the negativity surrounding the term, I definitely identify myself as a gamer. It is just a part of what makes up me as a person, but it is a very important one. I feel like if we stop using the term gamer, it will become yet in another line of slurs hurled towards people. We need gamers out there doing good and elevating the title to something more than just a basement dwelling misogynistic man-child. I try my damnedest to leave every gaming community I am part of better for my presence there. I try really hard to remain a mostly positive voice, and lead through my actions. So yes, I identify myself as a gamer and it is because I have hope that the term can be something more than derogatory.

21. Why do you play video games?

I guess I have always played video games for as long as I can remember, so at this point there was no single moment that got me into gaming. I am a gamer in all senses of the word… I love video games, board games, pen and paper, even puzzles and the occasional word game. More importantly with video games it allows me to do things I cannot do in real life. I cannot fight back an alien invasion hell bent on the extinction of humanity, nor can I crawl through a dungeon and slay a dragon. Gaming lets me live out lives that I simply could not through any other medium. Sure you can read about someone else’s story in a novel, but gaming lets me make my own stories in vivid three dimensional glory.

All Done!

I did in fact manage to wrap things up today. Look forward to a real post from me tomorrow!

Cannot Be Tamed Questionnaire: Part Two

August 21, 2014 by Belghast

Resuming the Survey

Yesterday I really did not make it terribly far into the survey before I simply ran out of time. If you want to check out the first part see my previous post. I will be picking up where I left off this morning and hopefully getting significantly further. There are a number of awesome responses to all of the questions floating about so I highly suggest you check out the other Blaugust folks as well. If you want to see the original survey you can still see it here.

7. Name a game that was popular/critically adored that you just didn’t like.

I am going to have to say Guild Wars 2 here. I have given this game a good college try on several occasions, but each time I play it I just get frustrated that I cannot for the life of me see what everyone else likes so much about it. I alpha tested this game and so far it has been the only alpha test that I actually went through the trouble of resigning from. When it launched everyone was interested in it so I decided to give it another shot, only to end up frustrated again. Since this is a buy to play title, I keep patching it up every so often to see if it is something I can enjoy yet.

I feel like I am less frustrated with the game at this point, than my inability to see any of its saving graces. I feel like I am somehow flawed in that I cannot understand why this title is popular. Don’t get me wrong it has a lot of really nice features, ones that I wish were in other games. However the lack of meaningful interaction with the world and lack of role based game play always end up with me uninstalling the game. I mean I understand that the world is pretty, but past that I can’t think of why someone would want to play it. This game will always be an enigma to me, and I have yet to actually make it past 45 or so in any character.

8. Name a game that was poorly received that you really like.

I struggled with this one for quite a bit, and I went on this morning writing most of the other posts below before returning to it. Mostly I didn’t quite know how to classify something as “poorly received”. There are a lot of games that do not necessarily do well upon launch that later receive an almost cult following. Then it finally hit me… the game I should talk about. In 2011 ID Software was working on a brand new engine, and a game that showcased it. Everything about it looked like we might be getting their take on the whole post apocalyptic fallout style genre. When it released however, not a single person seemed to like it. I however loved every single moment of Rage. I loved the setting, the engine, the characters you interacted with… and most importantly the moment to moment game play. The only problem I had with the game was that there simply was not enough of it. It was over well before I was ready for it to be, in fact I thought it was going to pull a “Link to the Past” on me and show me that the real mission was only just beginning. Sadly however the game was over and I had so many things absolutely unresolved. However the game that was there was absolutely sublime, and for whatever reason people just couldn’t seem to see that. Unfortunately due to lackluster sales and due to bad reviews… they never really released much DLC for the game, and I will be left with what might have been.

9. What are your favorite game genres?

I primarily play MMOs and Role-playing games or at least games with heavy character development and role-play elements. I like games where I can become the character, rather than playing through someone else’s character. Games like the new Tomb Raider are awesome, but it is like watching a movie. The games that really pull me in are the ones which I can inhabit and that become about me more than the characters I am playing. I want to be the big damned hero and save the kingdom… and if a game lets me do that I am generally happy with it. Similarly I can never seem to actually play the “dark side” option in a game. I cannot bring myself to willfully be a dick to people in games, because the character is really just an extension of me… and I can’t bring myself to act like that.

10. Who is your favorite game protagonist?

To be honest, I have to go with the above answer. I am my favorite game protagonist. When I play a game I am playing a version of myself. It might be Bel the Orc, or Bel the Monster Hunter, or even Bel the Crackpot Surgeon… but it is always me that inherits the character. I like playing versions of myself and when I play a game it is about me being able to do things I can’t actually do in real life… either that or shouldn’t do for the sake of you know not ending up in jail. So when I play Mass Effect I am not playing Commander Shepard… I am playing myself as a Commander. The games that do not disturb this internal narrative are the ones I tend to enjoy the most like Skyrim or Fallout. If you actually want me to pick a character from a game that I like the most… we will have to go with Link in all his many forms. I guess he most represents the heroic ideal for me or a weak person that goes on a quest and gets strong during the process.

11. Describe your perfect video game.

This is always the roughest question, because if I knew how to create the perfect video game I would likely be a game designer. For me at least like I said above the game that gets the least in the way of my personal narrative is the one that I tend to enjoy the most. So for me I greatly prefer the silent protagonist games like Secret World of Final Fantasy XIV. When someone is speaking the dialog of someone that is supposed to be “me” in this world, it causes so much cognitive dissonance. As far as the game play I tend to favor fantasy games or post apocalyptic world settings, because they are very open ended and allow for very loose moment to moment gameplay. I want a good overarching quest that drives the storyline along, but I also want there to be a ton of interesting side quests along the way that are in essence little bite sized chunks of adventure with very limited commitment.

The most important thing to my enjoyment however is the ability to go off the rails. Nothing frustrates me than having a series of cut scenes the moment you start a game, so my preference would be to dump into a world with little explanation, and allow me to figure out what is going on as I roam around. Cut scenes are cool, but I hate feeling like I am trying to play an “interactive movie”, so I would prefer that if they exist they are initiated by me and not forced upon me. I place a high premium on being able to explore on my own and find my own adventure where it leads me. I think this is why I like the MMO genre so much, is because I can carve out the game I want to play through all of the various things it offers. I have learned to appreciate narrative gameplay, but it so often feels like I am being handcuffed and forced to do things I don’t want to. So at the end of the day I feel like the “Theme-box” or “Sand-park” hybrid is my favorite thing. Give me a storyline that I can follow if I choose to, but also let me go off and build my own game play when I decide to do that.

12. What video game character do have you have a crush on?

This question is a little odd to me, because I can’t say I have ever really had a “crush” on any video game character. Maybe in part it is because I grew up in the era of gaming where storyline was an after thought and the characters really were just an assemblage of pixels. I guess the closest for me is I have a fondness for Tali’Zorah in the Mass Effect series and always tend to pick her for my parties. I can’t say that is a crush per say but I definitely like the character more than most of the others.

13. What game has the best music?

I listen to a lot of video game music, as that tends to be MOST of what I listen to at work. Instrumental music is what I can write or code to most easily, so it helps me focus on whatever I happen to be doing. Additionally there is a nice feel good element to it of nostalgia as in the back of my mind I get warm fuzzies when I hear tracks that remind me of good times in games. Right now the soundtrack that is on heavy rotation for me is Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn import CD. I am also a huge fan of The Secret World and Defiance soundtracks for various reasons… but primarily that they fit the game they represent and reminds me of those worlds. However if you absolutely want to pin me down to just one soundtrack… I have to go back to Castlevania Symphony of the Night. There is just so much to love about that soundtrack, and it will likely always be my favorite.

Finishing Up Tomorrow

Once again I have run out of time, but I feel like I can probably finish things up tomorrow morning. I feel bad that it will have taken me three days worth of posts to make it through one single 21 question survey. However I could not bring myself to give short answers on any of the questions really. The questions themselves serve to unlock a bunch of memories in the process, so I figured this is my blog and I might as well expand upon them.

Cannot Be Tamed Questionnaire: Part 1

August 20, 2014 by Belghast

Packaged with a Bow

I am not sure if this was intended to draw out posts during Blaugust or not, but yesterday Jasyla over at Cannot Be Tamed posted a survey. I seem to be able to rattle on every morning without much issue, but I am always thankful when a ready made post is handed to me so neatly. In part my hope is that through my own blog post and Liore’s (who turned me onto this) we will get this one spread through out the Blaugust community and get Jasyla a bunch of responses. I am really not sure how far I will make it into the survey in a single post, but we will see.

Cannot Be Tamed Gaming Questionnaire

You can see the full text of the survey here, but I will attempt to answer all of the questions

1. When did you start playing video games?

I honestly do not remember a time when I was NOT playing video games. I would have to say age three or four maybe? The earliest memory I had of video games was that my parents owned a Sears and Roebuck Pong clone. More than actually playing it… I remember the desire to play it. Like from the moment it got hooked up to the television I wanted my hands on it. Though being as young as I was, my parents were super reluctant to let me play. It was finally my Uncle Billy who I think let me play for the first time, and I remember losing almost immediately. The thing is it intrigued me so much that I kept wanting to try over and over. That early experience pretty much imprinted my brain for video games permanently.

2. What is the first game you remember playing?

Well like I said in the above answer the first game I remember playing is Pong. The first game I remember absolutely loving however was probably Ms Pacman. My aunt was the first to get an Atari 2600 and all of us cousins played it nonstop over most of our formative years. I ended up getting a second hand Atari system not too long after that. The game I can remember playing the most of however was Seaquest a game where you rescued drivers from sharks in a little sub that could fire a weapon. It was also the first game I can remember playing that didn’t have just a constant repetition of levels. As you progressed through levels the colors would change and new enemies would be added, and we wove a complex storyline through these simple transitions.

3. PC or Console?

I am primarily a PC gamer, but it hasn’t always been that way. In fact I have a ton of rare console systems stored away in my closet including an 3DO, a NeoGeo and a TurboDuo. In fact during the years before I got hooked on MMOs I had a video game loft with all of my consoles hooked up and “on tap” through a complex series of A/B switches. I have spent large swaths of my time shifting back and forth between them. Prior to 1992 I was a hardcore console gamer and mostly an Super Nintendo JRPG fan. Then we got a PC and I got hooked on Wolfenstein, Doom and Civilization. As I went through college the 3D graphics changes were happening and I was all about playing everything in “GL”. It was during this time that I played Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, Fallout, Quake, Baldur’s Gate and pretty much anything i could get my hands on.

When I got out of college however I had a massive console resurgence with the Sony Playstation, Dreamcast, and Saturn systems. I didn’t really make the journey back into PC exclusivity until I got hopelessly mired in the original Everquest around the release of the Scars of Velious expansion pack. It has been my love of the MMO that has kept me glued to the PC, and while I have dabbled with the PS2, PS3, Xbox 360 and PS4… I still prefer the PC. While until recently it was the MMOs that had kept me there, it is also the fact that I can modify my games freely. Everytime I install a new back of mods in Fallout 3, it makes it a completely new experience for me and I go through another 50 to 100 hour play through running back through all the content with fresh eyes. So when given the chance I will almost always gravitate back to the PC.

4. XBox, PlayStation, or Wii?

I started off my gaming life as a Nintendo Fanboy, but over the years their consoles have gotten less and less practical. All I really want is for them to release a good solid console without a gimmick controller. I don’t want new ways to play my games, I just want new content. I am admittedly these days a Sony Playstation fan. I have owned two different Xbox 360s, but it is really the value of the Playstation Plus subscription that keeps me attached to Sony. Over the last few years they have come off as the good guy in the console wars, and Microsoft coming off as the part of the stodgy corporate power. I realize that both are huge corporations hell bent on parting me from my money, but I feel less horrible about supporting Sony. Right now I have the PS3, PS4 and Vita in my office and they are hooked up so I can livestream the PS3/PS4 so I guess my alignment is pretty clear.

5. What’s the best game you’ve ever played?

The game I constantly keep coming back to over the years is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. The game represents pretty much my perfectly crafted game. For starters it is lovingly drawn 2D animation and not 3D. It has an amazing soundtrack with awesome rock versions of the Castlevania classics. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the Castlevania franchise, despite how many false steps it has taken over the years. I love the idea of hunting down Vampires, Werewolves, Ghouls, and all manner of things that go bump in the night. Castlevania is one of the first games I purchased for myself on the original Nintendo. I remember saving up my money and making a trip to Toys R Us to get it… and that was quite the pilgrimage considering the closest one was an hour away. Symphony of the Night was pretty much the pinnacle of “metroidvania” for me. It had roleplaying and leveling elements to keep me hooked, and an awesome world to explore and find all sorts of secrets. I have repurchased this game at least four different times, on various platforms and I have it installed on my Vita at the moment. When I am feeling horrible this is the game I boot up to take me back to a time when everything made sense.

6. What’s the worst game you’ve ever played?

I have played so many games since the days of the Atari 2600, but no game has ever absolutely confounded me as much as E.T. the Extraterrestrial. This game is the game that began my fear of movie tie-ins regardless of what they might be. I was still in elementary school when the movie came out, and absolutely loved it. So when they released it on my favorite console system the Atari, I had to get it right? There was nothing at all about this game that made any sense what so ever, and still to this day I cannot reason what the hell I am supposed to do. You alternated between getting humped by men in trenchcoats, to picking up piles of poo on the ground that were supposed to be Reese’s Pieces… to falling into trenches for no apparent reason. To make things even stranger… sometimes the trenches had things that looked like record players… that gave you credit of some sort for collecting them. But the most frustrating part was trying to get back out of the trenches, which involved extending your neck and levitating out… but you had to do so in exactly the right spot or you fell back down again. This was the first game to ever make me want to throw my controller across the room. After all of these years I still get angry thinking about the disappointment I felt as a kid playing this game. I have to say that the Ghostbusters Atari 2600 game redeemed movie ports somewhat, because I remember that game was really good.

Taking Longer than Expected

So at this point I am only 6 questions in… and there are a total of 21. This is going to take awhile, so hopefully you can bare with me as I answer a few questions each morning. I simply have run out of time this morning so I have to cut this off here. I blame the fact that I just had to look up images to go with each of the paragraphs. In any case tune in tomorrow for the next set of questions, where I hopefully make it through more than six!