Reinventing the Quest

I think I killed most of my audience yesterday with the massive Minecraft thread.  Then again, I keep arguing with friends as to whether or not I actually have an audience in the first place.  I still feel most days like a little kid sitting in a huge cardboard box on the living room floor pretending to be on TV.  I say whatever comes to mind on a specific day, and out comes a blog post.

Comments from Community

One of the things recently that has been getting under my skin more than I should allow it to is a series of comments surrounding Rift.  I realize I spend a good deal of my time evangelizing the game, and a month and some change after release a lot of the new has even worn off for me.  Thing is I am still enjoying it more than I have enjoyed any other MMO in a long while.

All that said, the general frustration I have had, and have even posted about this before now, are those comments surrounding the lack of innovation in Rift’s quest system.  Tipa at West Karana gave a great run down of the game from the point of view of a player not yet max level a month into the game.  Problem is for me at least, deep down in the post are the same sentiments I have had trouble understanding before.

It’s just the same old, same old. Collect quests at a quest hub. Follow the map markings and click on the sparklies or kill what it tells you to kill. Return for the reward. I hate the artificial quest mechanic, which has as its only purpose giving you something to do when you can’t do something fun.

If you have read this blog for a bit I commented (in Three Things Rift Didn’t Get Wrong) on similar statements about the questing system from MMORPG.com.

I find it a little disheartening that questing in Rift amounts to basically: go to hub, get a bunch of quests, go to bright yellow circle, kill things, return to hub when objectives are met.

Ultimately I guess the question I pose is, what exactly do you want instead?  We have arrived at the quest system we have today through a long line of prods and pokes and tweaks over the years.  Granted the big evolutionary jumps came from World of Warcraft, but looking back I am not sure how someone can really improve on the system.  I think to bring things into perspective we should examine where we have come from.

“Hunt For the Quest” Era

quest_baldursgate

Granted, the screenshot I have chosen to illustrate this cannot really be deemed as “early in the era”, but it represents a time that I like to refer to as the “Hunt For the Quest” era.  During this time, questing consisted of a random process of trying to canvas every new town you came to looking for those precious few NPCs that actually responded to you.  More often than not, a quest was dumped in your log as you went through a mostly non-interactive set of text. 

The vast majority of these games lacked any real quest tracking system, and instead listed a generic journal showing which quests you were on with very arcane directions as to how to complete each one.  Much of the “gameplay” actually involved trying to interpret what the heck the quest authors meant in their tips. 

Ultimately, players got stuck frequently and ended up relying on websites such as GameFaqs to figure out exactly how to do that one step of the quest that was holding up their progress.  In the dark days before the internet, it involved relying on your friends just hoping they had figured out whatever step you were stuck on.  Guidebooks existed, but in general no one I knew actually purchased these, and at worse case next time you were at a bookstore you thumbed through the copy on the shelf just long enough to find your answer.

Everquest – Most Ironically Titled Game Ever

With the birth of the MMO genre, not much really changed.  If anything, quests became even harder to find as you roamed through a world populated with massive numbers of NPCs, few of which offered anything interesting.  As the title above states, Everquest was probably the most ironic title for that game.  Questing took an act of congress to do successfully because it involved a cryptic series of text prompts to actually trigger said quests. 

Here is an example of a quest text…

Give the sand to the fallen student.

a fallen student says ‘Where did you find this? Could it really be happening now, after all of this time? It couldn’t be. He had been defeated. . .there is little [time] left for us now I am afraid.’

You say, ‘Time?’

a fallen student says ‘Time for what? Time for us to find a way to defeat this menace that threatens our ways of life. Go out and find one that may know more about the [power of the Immortals]. Please do not return until you have found someone to help.’

If you are catching on to the pattern, initiating a quest involved saying whatever text was contained within [ brackets ].  This would trigger another line of text and so on until ultimately you needed to collect something.  This snippet of text for example was initiated when an item was handed in to the NPC.  Problem is there was no real way of telling which NPCs would accept an item and give you a quest, nor was it entirely certain that if you handed an item in you wouldn’t simply lose it.

The Dark Age Arrives

Dark Age of Camelot took this construct and made it one step better.  Everquest encapsulated the keyword used to trigger the quest in [ brackets ] but DAoC made the “revolutionary” jump of hot linking.  So instead of having to type /say Rutabaga, you could simply click [rutabaga] in the chat window.  While this may not seem like much, it was freakin cutting edge stuff at the time.  Unfortunately you still had to roam around the camp randomly right clicking on NPCs until you found the quest givers, but at least once you found one the steps that followed went a little smoother.

Dawn of the Exclamation

quest_exclaimation Questing for the most part continued in this fashion for years.  We accepted the frustration that it gave us, but dealt with it.  The end result however was that the majority of players simply ground their way through the levels by running dungeons or hunting various “camps” until there was a significant reason to actually try and track down a quest.  These reasons were often doled out by the various MMO help sites available like Allakhazam.

The first major advancement in questing since Everquest came with when the first screenshots of World of Warcraft were leaked to the public.  You can tie alot of innovations back to WoW, but it is funny that I think the most lasting of them is the act of sticking an icon over the heads of quest NPCs to clearly identify them.  Our little friend to the right side here, has literally changed the MMO gaming world.

Now instead of running around town humping NPCs until they gave us a quest starter, we were able to see from a distance whether or not there were quests for us to do.  This was a big deal, and for the first time in a fantasy MMO questing actually played a key role in the game play.  As players we came to expect that as we move through content, there was a constant flow of quests to keep ups propelling forward.  For years folks had wanted something other than killing mobs to do in MMOs and it had arrived.

Assimilation of the Idea

quest_ifitaintbroke

Quickly every MMO on the market adopted this method for identifying quests.  Above is a quick cut and paste job showing all the various implementations.  While some have clearly tried to set themselves apart by making the icons look more unique, the fundamentals are the same.  Go into a town, look for a recognizable icon and go off and do the quests.  The era of quest grinding had arrived.  No longer were you forced to kill an endless string of mobs for no good reason, now you had NPCs to go tell you where to hunt and for how long.

I resisted this era for a long time.  Having cut my teeth on EQ and DAoC, I still preferred to take out monsters with a blind and unfocused rage.  However, in WoW and other games I noticed that if you completed the quests, you could level far faster than through killing monsters alone.  In addition to this you had all these wonderful bits of story along the way to make you feel attached to the game world.

Thing is however, that no matter what game you played, the process was essentially the same.  While a lot of todays players seem to find this boring, and un-original.  I find it the natural progression of the system.  Each crop of games, has managed to tweak the system to fit into whatever design they wanted.  Questing has arrived at this point, because each game that has come before it added something new to the genre.

So with Rift, we have this rich UI that is far better than any previous game shipped with.  It is the synthesis of years of gradual change, and represents the best of all the ideas to date.  You have great story telling, clear objectives, and nice visualization to complete them.  Problem is, players seem to be tired of this system that has been in place in one form or another for the better part of a decade.

Other Systems in Play

quests_fallout3

I return to the question, that if this system is now tired and boring… what exactly would you replace it with?  The only other tried and true parallel in the PC gaming world is that of the dialog tree quest.  The above example is from Fallout 3, but these are the bread and butter of the ever popular Bioware games.  The user is presented a prompt and then given a list of choices to pick from as the answer.  Often times the choices are determined by the players faction, skill and level.

Problem is, for seasoned PC gaming veterans this system is just as well trodden as the quest giver system.  We have literally played dozens of games at this point where we navigated our way through the text options.  Regardless of how well written these systems are, there is never an answer to the prompt that is exactly how you would want to respond.  You are basically left with the renegade/evil response, the goody two-shoes response, or the aloof neutral response.

Hope For The Future

This is the kind of system that it seems like Bioware will be bringing to the MMO genre with The Old Republic.  it will be interesting to see how it plays out, but like I said for me at least this is already the “old way” of doing things.  The problem again is, how would you build a better breadbox?  What can really be done that hasn’t already been done before.

Right now I simply cannot imagine a better system than the one that keeps getting labeled as “un-imaginative”.  Sure we all know how it works at this point, and we can blindly do the quests without thinking.  But to me at least, there is comfort in the familiarity.  I know what to expect in the quests, I already walk into the room knowing the language that will be spoken.

WoW has tried to evolve the quest construct for years, but for the most part in doing so they have created a series of mini-games that he player has to deal with.  I would far rather have “kill ten rats” than pilot this annoying vehicle around the zone, and bomb various objectives.  That is just me however, I have always enjoyed the generic construct of the kill task.

My Actions Should Matter

quest_fablegoodvevil

I will admit that I would love for there to be some weight in my decisions in an MMO.  I would like to know that if I choose the good path, various NPCs will react to me differently.  One of the most frustrating and annoying moments in Cataclysm came in Twilight Highlands.  In Wrath you spend hundreds of quests working for the Red Dragon flight, and as a result you end up interacting a good deal with Alexstraza directly.  So it was almost game breaking for me to encounter her in Twilight Highlands, and for her to not even mention the fact that you did dozens of quests for her flight.  Don’t we at least get a handshake and a nod out of the deal?

I would like to play a game without the faction wall, where we as players choose our alignments, and the choices we make have massive ramifications on the entire game.  In Dragon Age: Origins you join the Grey Wardens, and from that moment forward every NPC in the game has a reaction based on that fact.  Imagine a world where various social organizations are vying for control, and each has a specific slant on the world.  In the case of Rift, along with Defiant and Guardian, we should be able to join the various dragon cults if we so chose, or the various organizations set aside to fight them.

Wrapping Up

Ultimately for me, Rift is an evolved system, that has taken in all the best elements of the other games I have played to date.  While it is not ground breaking, it takes all these “best of” elements I wanted from other places and places it squarely in the same system.  Problem is for many players these elements just feel old themselves.  I would like to see some evolution in the system, a leap forward as big as the exclamation point was, however I did not go into Rift expecting it.  I came here expecting best of breed game play, and in that it has delivered plenty.

5 thoughts on “Reinventing the Quest”

  1. Over the last few days I’ve spent some time back in EQ2. I’m not taking any serious time away from my Rift addiction, but I do want to look around Velious, since that’s where 90% of my EQ1 nostalgia lies. Problem is my easymode conjurer is only 80, so I’m having to quest through Odus.

    Early in the series Ishaq gives you a quest to kill a wisp, an elemental and a ghost for some research project. Once you’ve done that, he gives you three separate quests: to kill 10 wisps, 10 elementals, and 10 undead (5 ghosts, 5 guards). When you return the last quest to him, he gives you another quest – to kill 5 wisps, 5 elementals and 5 undead.*

    All of the quests in Odus require you completing the previous quest hub: you [i]can not[/i] skip quests or take hubs out of sequence. It is *100%* linear, and an incredibly uninteresting sequence.

    No matter how tedious the WoW/Rift quest system is right now, it could be much worse 🙂

    Back in beta I *believe* that Rift also required quest hubs to be completed in sequence. I’m pretty sure I tried to skip hubs and pick up quests and couldn’t. I submitted feedback, and Lo! at release you could go to any quest hub that you were in level range for and pick up the starter quests, without having a delivery. Maybe I was wrong about how it worked in beta, maybe Trion listened to feedback, or maybe that was their plan all along. All three options seem equally likely, but the end result is that the quest hub system is sane, if predictable.

    The stories told by the quest givers are a little more believable than the usual “I’m bored, but I have a job to do, why don’t you go kill these ten rats for me.” Even so, it’s kinda artificial, and quest grinding does still feel like grinding, especially after the third or fourth time through. I just don’t see a better option at this point.

    I’m unconvinced that TOR will be significantly better. I like the system in Dragon Age: Origins, especially as responses *do* change the world, but in a MMO almost immediately sites will pop up showing you how to navigate a quest conversation to your best advantage – and whatever happens, you’ll only affect your quest, never the underlying world. I’d love to see quests change the world, but that way lies griefing.

    * Not long after the Ishaq quests, you’re sent to kill vermin in a cave. Yes, the quest is actually *called* “Kill Ten Rats.” It’s both clever irony and far too accurate.

  2. Hehe, well I never played Minecraft before, so no comment there 😛 This post however is very interesting to me, considering I’m a relatively new MMO player (started playing with TBC). I had no idea that things were that bad before! I mean, that EverQuest text is like seriously? Guess we really have it easy these days.

    I agree with you btw on the “kill X mutant rats” part, and I also prefer to take 2138 quests, do them then hand them all at once. Despite how interesting Cata quests were, doing them on an alt was not enjoyable at all for me.

    Gotta admit though, reading your blog is making me really want to try out Rift. But I don’t really have the time/cash to spend on the game right now. I also quit WoW a month or so after Cata, mainly due to reasons you covered on your “Is WoW the WoW-killer” post + not having much free time lately. But hey, we’ll see how Rift holds up a few months from now!

  3. Thanks for the link 🙂

    I don’t mind quests “per se”. I mind how little thought there is to them. Little collections of NPCs standing around, doing nothing, having absolutely no purpose in the world other than to hand out quests and distribute rewards. This is something WoW has actually worked on; the Cataclysm quest hubs are still quest hubs, but they seem to generally have a purpose. In Rift — none. In Rift, specifically, a quest hub should be something you EARN, by closing rifts or defeating footholds or something. Maybe it’s not the same quest hub every time.

    EQ2 had the seeds of that. Some enemy camps would have a terrified NPC in them that, once you’d cleared the enemies, would sell you things and buy your junk loot.

    But I want to go back further, to NeverQuest. When you killed a mob, chances are you’d gain or lose one or more factions. That system has been taken in minimal ways by WoW and its copiers who gate loot and quests behind faction NPCs, but in NQ (er, EQ) you could open up whole cities and areas — or in a frenzy of unwise killing, become KOS everywhere you went. If you look at it a certain way, killing key mobs was like an open quest toward the goal of increasing your reputation in the world in more of a way than simply some NPC telling you you have influence.

    You can never get Horde NPCs to play nice with Alliance PCs. But in EverQuest, if you worked hard at it, your woodelf druid could walk freely in Cabilis.

    Quest hubs turn maps into 3D games of connect the dots. EQ’s quests may have been obscure at best, but they usually made sense and felt important. EQ has abandoned all that, now, and has fully embraced the quest hubs filled with meaningless quest philosophy. To its loss.

    • Yeah I agree there needs to be more of a reason behind the quest hubs. One of the failings of Cataclysm however is that all of the quests were linked in this grand dependency tree. If you did much of the new 1-60 content. If you skipped quest, you couldn’t simply move on to the next hub. This was in part because the storyline elements carried you from breadcrumb to breadcrumb. It is a cool idea in theory, but in practice I was forced to do nothing but green quests as I quickly outpaced the zone content. On top of that, in the new WoW environment it is next to impossible to quest with a group unless you all start at exactly the same time and never deviate. All of the quest phasing made it so someone couldn’t move to an area where neither party had quested just up the road. Instead you had to spend time catching the other party up to your level.

      Anyways I think the paradigm needs to change somehow. I long for the days of being able to faction with anyone I want pending I put enough effort into it. As a dwarf and high elf I managed to get into Paineel, and my friend who played an Iksar Monk managed to walk around freely in Rivervale. It was so much fun to be able to pick and choose your own allegiances and I hope somewhere down the line someone implements this in another game. Having hard defined factions still seems so artificial to me.

  4. I agree totally, and this is why I get burn-out on so many games (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing).

    I played the hell out of Spore, because my actions mattered. It was fascinating to play something that evolved with how you reacted to situations, rather than put you in the same quest tree as everyone else and forcing you into a role based on race/class, etc.

    I was a bit bummed that it wasn’t as much of a game-changer game than I hoped.

    Someday, I hope to have a game more open to “hey, maybe I WANT to try to mediate this dispute”, rather than being a soldier in a war you have no control over, but till that day I’ll still get a ton of enjoyment out of Rift.

    (and I love your Minecraft posts 😉

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