Is Grinding Fun?

A “Shootycow” in World of Warcraft

This is probably going to end up being an odd post because I am essentially going down a rabbit hole that was inspired by a comment I received from yesterday’s blog post. In it long time reader and regular commenter Mailvaltar noticed something about my post.

I can’t help but notice that you used the word ‘grind’ an awful lot in this post.
In contrast, there’s only one instance where you speak of enjoyment, and that’s the last paragraph where you talk about the fact that the boost kinda ruins said enjoyment (of leveling characters).

I don’t know…maybe just let it all go and play something else entirely…?

Mailvaltar

This has lead me to think about it probably more than was intended, but I guess at the end of the day I find grinding to be enjoyable. Sure I didn’t specifically talk about the enjoyment I was having, because for me at least grinding can be relaxing and enjoyable. Like I said at the beginning of this recent string of posts about World of Warcraft, I started playing it again because I needed a game I could more or less shut my brain off while playing it. Living in the time of pandemic has been an extremely stressful thing for me on a personal level. Not only have we not left the house much in the last six weeks, but we have had to figure out how to both be fully functional working adults without stepping on each others toes all the while trying to juggle a completely new skill. I’ve had to learn how to manage a team of sixteen people efficiently without actually having any face to face interaction with them, and my wife has had to figure out how to teach a classroom to a group of students that may or may not have stable internet connections.

Diablo 3 Seasonal Nonsense

The stress has made it to the point where I just really need something soothing to play at night, and in many ways a familiar grind offers an awful lot of solace. You have to realize I am also the guy who gleefully starts a brand new seasonal character in Diablo 3 effectively every three months to grind from scratch and ultimately throw that character away later when I “rebirth” it in another season. There are certain kinds of grinds that just set my mind in order, because I am effectively working entirely on muscle memory. There are kinds of grinds however that I do not find enjoyable, and probably part of the confusion is that I rarely give much effort to explaining what makes one fun and another not so fun.

I think the mindset I have at the time ultimately is what changes things for me. If I feel like I am forced to do something that I don’t really enjoy… see PVP requirements in games like Destiny 2 gating some weapon that I want or grinding for faction in a zone I hate like Nazjatar or even the relatively frustrating methods of leveling alternate jobs in Final Fantasy XIV. Those are grinds that can wear me down and make me want to walk away from a game for an indefinite period of time. Leveling a brand new character through questing and roaming around the world doing bite sized world quests for faction… those are both the sort of grind that sets my mind at ease and allows me to just go with the flow of the game ultimately relaxing me.

My favorite zone in Destiny 2 for mindless grinding

My favorite activity in Destiny is doing public events and patrol missions, because it is the sort of bite sized repeatable entertainment that allows me to just zone out and enjoy myself. Similarly I think the main reason why I have never gotten into Warframe is that there isn’t really any equivalent to that sort of self directed engagement. Everything in the game is mission focused with an objective, and I seem to always avoid doing things that put me on someone else’s schedule. I hate anything that happens on a timer, or anything that involves leading or following another NPC away, because it forces me into a rhythm of game play that is not my own. Those kind of grinds are ones that I am forced into and not one that I choose on my own.

The problem for me at least is that I find it extremely hard to predict ahead of time if a grind is going to be one that I find personally fulfilling. On some level there needs to be some goal that I am working towards to keep me engaged. The goal needs to feel reachable, so like 2000 kills instead of 20,000 kills, but there also needs to be a chance of me having something interesting happen in the process. There needs to be enough friction to keep me interested, but not so much that it knocks me out of a flow state while grinding. Like I said before it needs to be an activity that I am participating in mostly from muscle memory and not really requiring much in higher order thinking. Finally and most importantly I need to find the moment to moment game play mechanically enjoyable. It needs to feel good for example when I charge into a new pack of mobs and drop my first few attacks on them. Charging in as a Warrior and dropping a Thunderclap just feels good, and is probably never going to reach a point where it feels stale.

The games that filled this niche for me growing up were the various JRPGs that I obsessed about, probably none more than Final Fantasy VI. This is not my screenshot because I played on the Super Nintendo and don’t have any images from 1994. However I spent countless hours roaming around aimlessly killing whatever monsters I happened to encounter. I spent weeks trying various things in the Colosseum in the World of Ruin, or trying to steal stuff with the Genji Glove. It allows me to play for a very short amount of time or hours at a time. I think I put off beating the game for as long as I possibly could, because I have always hated when something I am super into ends. I am not sure if I have ever beaten any RPG, without grossly over-leveling and out-gearing the content. I guess you have to understand that I am never chasing “challenge” but instead a mindless state of blissful escape where I turn off my brain for awhile and just become one with the experience. This is what the grind is for me.

9 thoughts on “Is Grinding Fun?”

  1. I get where you’re coming from Bel, and I can relate.

    I guess my ‘problem’ is that I look for something else entirely when playing games, at least most of the time. I’m in it for the excitement, the adventure, the unexpected.

    In a comment to one of my posts Bhagpuss reminded me of the fact that many people don’t play MMORPGs (or games in general) for those same reasons at all, and while I know he’s right I tend to forget it time and again. 🙂

    • I appreciate you giving me an unexpected writing prompt 🙂 I don’t want my post to come off as my way is right or anything, folks play games for lots of reasons. My life is full of challenges and they bring their own adventure, and when I play a game it is more or less my way of seizing control of what I feel like is chaos the rest of the time. I think Bhagpuss is right, what I am talking about is a flow state, but it just sounds weird to talk about it like that in gaming terms.

  2. I hate daily quests in MMORPGs, I did them for awhile in LotRO but they largely killed the excitement for me… However I love grinding in single player RPGs, finding a good spot to overlevel for the next boss and take him out as if he’s easy (when in reality I’m actually just a bad player). It feels good… even if I suck, although leveling to high is an issue in games like FFVIII, because of the way it structured its progress… But that’s a whole other mechanical system

  3. The problem isn’t with the activity, it’s with the nomenclature. “Grind” is a really unhelpful descriptor because it has strongly negative connotations for many users, while others, as in your case, Bel, use it in a broadly positive way. Over the years I’ve read and participated in countless discussions where people try to define what “grinding” in video games means but there’s not much agreement beyond “it’s something repetitive”.

    I think I’m going to try and avoid using “grind” to describe things I like doing in games in future. I’d suggest that “flow” might be a less misleading term. I like activities that have a good flow, where moving from one iteration to another to another in a repetitive fashion feels natural and organic rather than labored or forced.

    For example, gathering in many MMORPGs has a good flow. You move from node to node, or mob to mob, pressing a key or a hotkey to mine or chop or kill and loot so as to increase a stack of materials that tally your progress. Leveling by repeatedly killing mobs, as in EverQuest, has a similar flow and a similar tally.

    People who don’t enjoy those activities but pursue them purely because they feel a need for the result – materials or xp – would call it “grinding” or “a grind” but if you find it enjoyable and relaxing it’s more like going with the flow, letting the mechanics of the game carry you along at a steady and comfortable pace.

  4. Awesome thoughts.

    One of the fun things to me about a variety of grinds is it gives chances to learn about communities you never really knew about. I recently just accomplished my “grind” for the Brontosaurus mount, learned so much from the gold making community I never knew existed, along with a fun thought: it’s best you find something you enjoy doing as part of the grind. WoW gives so many options now for it’s variety of grinds, from leveling to gold making, and it’s opening even more in Shadowlands. It’s not just a “level” grind. It’s a “level your way” grind!

  5. I completely agree with you. I’m generally playing as a way to relax or escape and so I actually prefer some easily flowing activity that might feel a bit grindy to others. I suppose that’s why I have so many max level characters and am constantly continuing to add more.

  6. I like grinding, most of the time. If I’m impatient to get to the next thing in a game and I HAVE to grind, well, not a fan. But when I’m just having fun in the game, definitely. If the game is fun enough, progression is secondary. Look at the two most popular PC games — Solitaire and Minesweeper. You might get better, after a time, by playing those games, but I bet that’s not why people play them. They play them to relax, disconnect from their day, and get back to a comfortable place.

  7. Hmm… I’ve been playing Pokémon with a randomizer recently.
    Pokémon games are built to be ground, and it can be a problem. But it is at the same time a great example of how to make it enjoyable. It is genuinely rewarding and with the randomizer it’s fun.
    That is how much it takes for me to enjoy grinding.

  8. We seem to have a very similar outlook about Warcraft grinds. I have found it very, very relaxing of late to start new alts, level them and their professions through all of that wonderful old content, and just sort of zone out while revisiting places in game that I may have forgotten. The reputation grinds or grinding for gear do absolutely nothing for me. Which is why I have a few 120s that are barely being played now, but I have a handful of lowbies that I’m enjoying leveling. I don’t even especially mind world quests, say, to fulfill emissary quest goals, but I really dislike trying to grind them out over and over again on a daily basis so I can unlock flying. Which shows, I guess, since the last expansion I’m able to fly in is Mists of Pandaria 🙂

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